Advice? However, I just do not know how should I tell the IB? Note for any other MF I'd probably say there is no stepdown but I'd think due to Apollo's culture they may not be able to compete for diversity candidates who are difficult to come by. Potential upside: You get the job you want. So regarding the interview, Ive actually moved on to super day at this point, and Ive gotten more interview offers lined up. Long term goal is still finance- (PE/VC/Growth equity fund). How bad would reneging be in this instance? Both are consulting firms, but practice in different areas. Take-home assignments are much more common during the off-cycle, while in-person tends to be more common during on-cycle due to the time constraints. Apollo is a sweatshop and will remain so. If the BB doesnt ask if I accepted an offer elsewhere, should I still proactively tell them? Theyd question why youre interviewing in the first place. Im in a rather awkward situation as I know you have mentioned that it is a poor idea to jump from BB to BB, but the current offer I have requires me to train in an offshore location for two years at roughly 55% of the market rate before becoming a normal analyst and returning back to my home location. You can just tell them that youve changed your mind and decided that PWM isnt the best fit for you. But theres always some risk, no matter what type of move youre making. Ive spoken to my careers office about the possibility (as A was OCR, the rest are not), obviously they are very unhappy that I am even considering renegeing. Later in the semester I accepted an offer for a MS in Finance program to start 3 months after the MS in Accounting program ended. About Apollo Apollo is a leading global investment manager with offices in New York, Los Angeles, San Diego, Houston, Bethesda, London, Frankfurt, Madrid, Luxembourg, Mumbai, Delhi, Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai and Tokyo, among others. Culture has to change from the top down, not the bottom up. Oh and also, you're probably not getting that Associate spot anyway so stop bitching that someone else is gonna take it and start working on winning it for yourself. Yes, its best to tell them proactively during interviews just so theyre aware. took pretty long to get back to me. Hello. Only issue is there is not much of a timeline. I accepted an associate internship for corporate banking BB in the US. Is it worth reneging in this situation? Is reneging worth it for a junior year internship from Big 4 to BB IBD with no FT guarantee? I quickly accepted it (just like in your hypothetical example above) but then received notice that I have a spot in a GS final round Superday. How do you think I should best handle the situation? Id speak with the guys in NY and be honest and tell them you need to be in London due to XX reason and that you have to renege the offer. Would it be risky for me to renege the PWM offer? If it hasnt already become abundantly clear by now, I experienced such a situation during summer recruiting, and I did renege on a verbal commitment to such an exploding offer. Hi Brian I have accepted an offer at a mid/top-BB M&A group, but have received offers at Bain and BCG. I dont want to create any friction at my career services center and at company A. But the rest? Accepted an offer for equity derivatives sales internship in BNP; got an offer for off cycle at DCM at BAML week after. However, the conflict here is that I had put the accounting internship on my resume that I used to apply for the investment bank. Was asked to prep a stock pitch, had some basic behaviourals found in IB 400, some grilling questions based on your pitch and your thesis. Throw MS if you think this is "sExIsT" but its absolutely something to consider. (I am currently in an Asian city and the finance world is pretty small here). The only girls at the top of my class (top 20-30 I guess?) 2nd internship (mid Aug -mid Sept). Your email address will not be published. I'm about to apply as diversity to the big ol Apollo. It's frankly insane the impact it has on getting into college and then getting a job on the street without needing to network. Do you think bankers would call consultants? Just follow the advice here theres no way to avoid burning bridges, its like getting a divorce but pretending you can still have the same relationship with the other person. I was wondering if you could give any more specific advice? Too early to celebrate? I first had to provide written responses to 5 questions to display my interest in the strategy and working for a first-time fund. Do you suggest reneging in this situation? Should I bring it up before the superday or wait to see if I land the offer first to bring it up after. and how concepts are covered. The percentile score in the title is calculated across the entire Company Database and uses an adjusted score based on Bayesian Estimates (to account for companies that have few reviews). Perhaps you can just lay low for now and continue interviewing. Would really appreciate an objective opinion! I think its less risky because people are more spread out, and theres less of a chance of Person X at Small Fund A telling Person Y at Large Fund B. Hi Brian thank you so much for the article. Tough call. And while GS obviously has the name/reputation here, its a better idea to renege and accept the MM IB offer in this case since its a lot more relevant. And there is a risk they (A) may know you have another offer from B and they will tell B you reneged their offer. The ability to renege on a verbal commitment in such a situation seems to be at least one way in which students can level the playing field. Not sure I understand your question are you saying that theres no chance youll receive a full-time return offer from the boutique bank? poor whites) don't have access to - squash, golf, skiing, tennis, anyone? If you switch to normal PE early enough, you wont be pigeonholed. The only other time I could get an internship before I graduate would be for fall 2023 positions. Personally, I wouldnt do that. Got excited at the offer call and was asked, can we take this as a verbal committment? I think this is a clear case when you should renege on the offer. basic accounting questions. There is some risk, so one approach might be to skip the manager at your accounting firm and just list the internships before that. If youd like to be interviewed, let us know and we will reach out to you. But as I said, there is some risk here, so I would not recommend doing this in all scenarios. But the issue is they want me to work as an intern for six months, adding to it they are not offering any hike too. I actually wonder if they saw the other thread on APO culture. You can tell the REPE firm that you accepted an offer previously but are willing to renege for this. I would not accept both offers and try to figure out a way to leave the first internship early because that may end up costing you a full-time return offer. What school is the best for ibanking.. Boston college, univ of Richmond, or colgate? I am in the process for several IB internships at good banks in cities I am excited about (LA, SF, NYC, etc. Hi, I recently accepted an offer from citigroup but havent signed yet. This is going from a MM to a top EB. Apollo Issues Shares in Merger 166m Apollo Share Price (Pre-Announcement 3/5/21) x $49.56 Consideration Value, gross $8.2bn Apollo Equity Held by Athene ($1.4bn) Apollo Stock Issuance, net $6.8bn Receive 100% of Athene Retirement Services Earnings $1.1bn If I get a FT offer (and offers usually come out before the recruitment season, which means I would have to sign on before I even get to interview at other places), do you think I can renege on that offer if I land a BB FT role? Assuming all else equal, do you think it would be better and safer to do my IB internship a different location? If youre not sure what you want to do and you want to keep more options open, theres an argument for sticking with the S&T offer. I am in a similar situation: I accepted an offer from a top BB in Finance (like treasury or controller). Hi Brian, The class was 55% women, 36% minorities, and 9% veterans. Itaque magni magnam minus odio vitae harum doloribus aut. How should I word it? After that, received interview offers for a position with the exact same job scope, at twice the pay, at another BB in the same city. Gotta like M&I! Internship with the potential conversion in the end. It may. 3 phone screens and a superday of 7 interviews consisting of mostly behavioral and one technical interview of a case study. 01. Maiores tempore saepe rerum eum alias ut illo. If I keep applying and interviewing, will the rumors spread back to my IBD team and piss them off? How would you see it if it was reneging an internship for a FT offer? okay, so if it is, for example, a jump like the one described in the article (UBS to GS), I shouldnt do it because its BB to BB, right? No, not really, because most of the downside is in the near-term. How can I network through interviews when I already accepted an offer? They could check, but its more common to do so in the final stages or when youve already won an offer. Sorry, you need to login or sign up in order to vote. Im not sure I understand your question. The contract did not mention how to cease employment, any fine related to the cancelation of contract etc. Sure Id be willing to be interviewed; contact me by email. You are taking a risk even if you get the FT offer first, but its less of a risk than if you reneged on another banks offer. We have coffee! Be firm and say that you prefer NY over the regional office but you accepted the offer given time constraints. I would give it a shot in this case because its unlikely that the other bank would find out, and a BB would be a significant step up over one of those. I understand that each person is different really. I dont think firms really make / keep black lists and track people over years and years so its not that dangerous a move it might hurt you if you want to move to the front office later on but chances are low given the high turnover. Yes, they might be mad, but ultimately its all about whether or not youll get a full-time offer. Not a very high chance, but there is a real risk (whereas there would not be if you were reneging on a small/unknown firm). If you do decide to do the JPM Superday, its best to do it, tell them your situation upfront, see what happens, and then make a decision. There is no point in moving to another corporate banking role if you dont want to be in CB. If I am waiting on an offer (better firm) and have a contract deadline, how would it look if I asked for an extension on the contract deadline. I heard that my school bans students from on campus recruiting if they renege. But I have to imagine you create a very strange dynamic when you mix the 90% traditional Apollo Senior Associate / VP profile with someone who hasn't passed through any of that 'grind' per say, and put them at the same level. If theres a really specific reason e.g. I made the decision far too late and there were no IB FT Analyst Positions available for the upcoming summer. If UBS and GS gave you an offer in Australia, you would have an orgasm (reference Australian league tables). A sign to not be scurred about the hiring situation. I also think that I should have a better experience as teams are leaner in the second option. Really appreciate your thoughts. Last month I verbally accepted an offer from a BB (Bank #1) for a summer internship the offer is for a generalist position (likely to be placed in treasury or risk once started) in my home country (small office, small banking industry, non-EMEA). Suppose Ive accepted a full-time IBD offer with a BB regional office. Thank you for your insightful article! Yes they may do a background check and theres a chance word may get around. I agree with a lot of this post but would have phrased it differently. On the PE side, everyone is HBS / GSB and has requisite pre-MBA large cap PE experience (eg Carlyle) + 2 yrs banking from top shops, I can confirm that this isn't the case, as one is a former colleague working on the non investment side of a PE fund. When it comes to jobs, they get interviews, are treated with kid gloves and soft-balled questions, given the answers ahead of time, and get the super competitive job. But if its something like limiting your access to on-campus recruiting in the future, that could be worth the penalty because you shouldnt really need OCR if you perform well enough in the internship and get a return offer there. So that's what clients do. If you want to stay in real estate long term, stick with the first offer. I think the IBD experience maybe more useful than the consulting experience if you want to move to PE down the line though. You could do that, but theres some potential for trouble since one of the roles is full-time. Everything was anticipated and typical lateral interview questions. Basically, I signed and accepted a B4 accounting return offer after my summer internship, due to its pressing deadline and my lack of confidence that Id find something better at the time. These are both FT. IS it worth the risk to renege? The crucial wording of the document was that we mutually agree that you will be an employee at will and that the analyst position is a 2 year program., also starting date for either firm wouldnt be until the summer. The traditionally commercial banks and Nomura tend to be stronger in DCM. Congratulations on your internship. so under these circumstances, would reneging on my offer spell disaster or is it advisable, given the upside?? Perhaps you can just apply to a selected few firms and be discrete about it. Plz note that on the signed letter it said that the offer can be terminated by either party. I-banking has already been where my heart is. 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